- Martina, I have to postpone our meeting, so please, tell Mr Alan Ereira I will be late 30-40 minutes due to unforeseen duty for today!
- OK. I will - said Martina, one of the top operatives, amid everything else, for handling the guests of the ) in September and one scientist is coming to speak about what the Kogi said.... I would investigate it :)
- Thank you, for this conversation.
- No, this was a pleasure. This is one of the reasons why I go back, to remind myself that I do not understand any of it.
...
- Now... I recall something. Here is something symbolic by the end of the movie, that bathing, going into the water. It resembles me to Christianity.
- Was like it, wasn't it ? It was not my idea..... Hmmm, clearly there is a number of different elements. Water is spirit.
- You dip into the spirit?
- Yes, it is immersion into the spirit. It is clearly what it is. It also links, you know, to the El Dorado. El Dorado the gold man.... There is a lake in a volcano near Bogota, Guatavita. You now the story of El Dorado? The Spanish were always looking for the El Dorado. They thought that El Dorado was a place. El Dorado is not a place. El Dorado is the man who is the chief of the mamas of Kogi. The gilded man. The man of the gold. And what he had to do, and possibly still does, is to be covered in gold and go into the water...
- Sorry, what about those small golden object in the movie?
- The “mako”? (mako - small object of gold)
- Yes!
- These objects are both, placed in the ground and used to hang from the trees. An interesting thing is that this is the finest gold ever produced in America. It is not really gold. It is mixture of little bit of gold and copper by a technique which has been lost. I don't know what it is.
- How is it crafted ?
- Two things we do not understand. It is crafted with the solder of melting temperature very, very close to the primary metal. Nobody knows how they controlled the temperature so precisely. Very strange... And when finished it was an object produced of copper & gold mixture dipped in something that dissolve out the cooper from the surface, leaving a pure gold surface. Now, at the time when the America was discovered, the time when this work was done the strongest acid known in Europe was vinegar. Smile again :) - what they were doing, nobody knows.
-Sorry I stopped you talking about the El Dorado, gold man going to the water. And ?
- He re-vitalizes the water. Re fertilizes the Earth.
- He?
- Yes it is a communication. And the golden object - Mako (they do not decay) and the making of it is an investment of human consciousness in this eternal substance. So you have this marriage of the consciousness of the Cosmos, the consciousness of the individual human being and gold in the gold. Thats why these objects have fundamental importance for them and they also (Makos) contain some essence which is placed in the core territory, essential reserve of this creatures. Each creature has some places which are essential for its survival and that's the place where you put these objects. And I was very surprised to be told by some scientist that they now believe this. Even if the creatures are not there! That is the place when he is threaten he will come back.
- It resembles me to the salmon, the fish.
- Yes. I am astonished that many of the things that Kogi says scientist say - Ouu, Yes, that's right. That is true. Now we know that. I don't understand. I never thought you would say that? I am the ignorant one.
- Because Kogi said that through generations we now less than before.
- Yea, we talk about that and it sometimes get funny. An old man as you expect, (he is not a mama) and he says - All the mamas are not like the mamas when I was a boy. When I was a boy those were great mamas. Now, I know more than these mamas...
We smile.
- Normal human conversation... And I said - why don't you tell me what you know and I will write it down and then it will be preserved, so that it won't be lost when you die ? And then he said - Yes it is a good idea. You write it down and I will put it in the roof of my house and then my grand children will be able to take it down and read it and know what I know. - No, they will not ! - Ereira concluded the hypothetical situation.
- What about chewing those leaves by the end of the movie ?
- That clearly is a form of meditation, making a connection, revelation, way of knowing things, learning things. . There is of course many of shamanic cultures, systems. It is interesting how widely spread is an idea in South America that you can be educated by plants. There is the belief that the information is going from the plant. The plant is the teacher. For example “ajavaska”
- Ajavaska ?
- This is a vine,you make a drink, you have to drink and learn from the drink.
- Ajavaska, hmm..
-Yea, I lived with the “Shebibo” in the Amazon and for example if they want to teach a dog to hunt they take the plant that teaches a dog and feed it with the plant. And then the dog learns from the plant how to hunt.
- This resembles me to Matrix the movie.
- Yes, it also slightly resembles the story of Adam and Eve.
- Apple?
- Yes. It gives you the information. It is the same idea. Obviously it’s a very old idea.
- At the end you were smiling, when going to the water.
- I thought it was very funny. I have been tricked. They said - We will have two mamas in the river. The mama from overseas and mama form here. The two great mamas will go into the water, but of course you will not be naked.
- I noticed the unusual way of going to the water, indirectly covering genitals?
- Oo, they are very modest. I have never seen them without clothes. But it was so funny, none of us was knowing what is happening. Kogi were directing that sequence.
- By the end of the movie we have that lagoon, reef and oil storage tanks, Kogi were looking at. And over that the statue of the mother and baby Jesus?
- Yea, Santa Marta.
- Did you put it in the movie?
- Yes. I thought it was important.
- In what way, it could be misunderstood. The place blessed with that?
- No. Another thing. prof. Ljiljana Bogoeva Sedlar, from Beograd, proposed an idea of “Aluna and the other Mary”, she is teaching a one year course at the University of Belgrade, on this subject, it is her idea. She picked the same idea that the notion of the mother is a notion that runs through our religion and their perception. We understand the idea of the mother and that is an idea I wanted to be included. It is not strange to us - the idea of the mother. I just thought that was quite interesting that there they see the Earth as a mother, and we have the statue of the mother. Of course the child is necessary, without it she could not be a mother.
It is a sudden stop but this is the end of the interview.
